Freakonomics Radio

How Goes the Behavior-Change Revolution?

An all-star team of behavioral scientists discovers that humans are stubborn (and lazy, and sometimes dumber than dogs). We also hear about binge drinking, humblebragging, and regrets. Recorded live in Philadelphia with guests including Richard Thaler, Angela Duckworth, Katy Milkman, and Tom Gilovich.

About two years ago on Freakonomics Radio, we interviewed Angela Duckworth and Katy Milkman, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, about an audacious new project they called Behavior Change for Good. It gathered together a “dream team” of behavioral scientists with the goal of advancing the science of behavior change and helping more people make good decisions about personal finance, health, and education.

On this week’s episode of Freakonomics Radio, we caught up with Duckworth and Milkman on the status of their project and the latest research in their circles. To that end, we also heard from four members of Duckworth and Milkman’s team about their research on pettiness; humblebragging; whether dogs are smarter than people; why people have such a hard time choosing the right health-insurance plan; and what people regret the most. Also joining us this week: Richard Thaler, a Nobel laureate who helped create the field of behavioral economics, who explained why psychologists may be better than economists at generating behavioral change.

When we first interviewed Milkman and Duckworth about their new project back in 2017, Milkman said they believed “the biggest problem in the world that needed solving was figuring out how to make behavior change stick.”

That’s the primary goal of Behavior Change for Good. Have they solved the problem yet? Short answer: hardly.

They’ve been running a big randomized, controlled trial involving 63,000 members of 24-Hour Fitness gyms. The participants signed up to take part in incentive programs designed by project scientists, with the goal of getting participants to build a lasting exercise habit.